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    « BEING the church | Main | Goodness. »

    May 08, 2007


    connor Mccullough

    really looking forward to hearing this talk...


    Great video...

    Very thought provoking...sad...but very true.


    I was hoping you were going to put that video on you blog. Now I can link to it!!

    I was shocked!!


    Hey there, I happened to chance upon here when following links while bloghopping- and well, it's been refreshing.

    Like I came upon this quote: "Never confuse the faith with the supposedly faithful."

    It's very true now, especially with many hypocritical christians out there giving more people a chance to criticize God. (I'm sorry about that. But I was one too, and hopefully not anymore.)

    And, about your old post on Rob Bell: I love his videos! Rain in particular, reminded me of how much He loves us.

    God bless, and keep well.


    (P.S. Quote from S*P:
    It's along the same lines as your post, and an interesting read.)


    Scott: WOW! That video made me want to cry. I just heard Dan Kimball talk at a conference about why people "...Like Jesus, but Not The Church." His short answer was that most people simply don't have a friendship with any true Christians.

    It is really a sad state we are in; living in our Christian bubble in the midst of a dying world.



    John Coziton

    I think it is OK for Christians to dislike churches that do not preach the word and who desire nothing more than to just put on a show. Places like this are popping up all over the place. All they care about is saving people. The churches' job is to preach all of the word and to disciple new believers.
    So just because a place is called a church does not make it God's church. A church needs to do things that will bring honor and glory to His name and need to be held accountable for this. Only churches who truly do God's will are considered to be the church.

    Chad McCallum

    wow...great clip...are you willing to share it with other churches to include in their services?



    Hey Scott......great MOS! I am with Chad on making it available, as I think it safe to say EVERY Christian sitting in a church anywhere needs to see (over and over) where people out there really are and think.

    Enjoyed chatting at Unleashed.....looking forward to seeing what evolves.



    Thank you so much for posting, Scott. I think it's so important for people to see this.


    OK, I'm not disagreeing with the sentiments expressed here: there is a huge disparity between the nature and character of Jesus himself and the perceived and expressed nature and character of his followers.

    That being said, I would like to pose a question: how much of this perception gap is caused by the secularization of the historical character of Jesus? Meaning, those outside the church have tried to sap Jesus of his divinity by portraying him as a mild-mannered, loving hippie character. Peace, man. Jesus minus the hard teachings. Jesus who accepts sinners, without adding, "Go and sin no more." The "good teacher" Jesus.

    Does that make sense? If you asked them more in-depth questions about their perception of Jesus, would it turn out that they're not thinking of the guy who asked people to take up their cross and leave everything to follow him?

    Just a thought.


    Kimball's book 'They Like Jesus but Not The Church' is an amazing book. It is a very intriguing book that I think every believer should read.

    phil crissman

    Cool video; very interesting. I'm totally posting this.

    Kudos for actually getting out to the streets and soliciting these responses.


    checked out your keynote presentation and man, i like it. been diggin' into the stuff from Q and Fermi Project and this stuff is unbelievable. we got work to do. much of the mess we made with our own hands and man-made traditions. it's time for the Church to step out of its own subculture and make steps in order to get a spot at the table. i'm looking forward to hear your talk.
    by the way, the Jesus series i'm doing now is so in line with what you have in your keynote. love it!!!! keep posting, man!


    From my angle on it, the church sucks at marketing. We sure have a great product that "sells itself" but our sales staff is terrible.

    Just gave me an idea for my next blog. I'll link you of course.... Thanks!

    Rev Scottie

    Only Christians can take the most exciting message in the world and screw it up so badly that no one wants to hear it.

    By the way Joni what do you mean by a church that's only interested in saving people? I think that's the least of the problems facing the church today.

    Concerned Friend

    John Cozitan (a.k.a. MC),

    It seems like you have a knack for popping up periodically (seemingly around the subject matter of what a “church” should look like) and ridiculing what God is doing through a church community. It’s as though you feel this need to freely and liberally dull out a word of correction (like a consultant on speed) to somehow numb the hurt you have experienced – maybe to justify some festering hate or bitterness.

    While on one hand I wonder what brought you to such a place of detestation and the need to take jabs at church communities, like the Orchard, who are deeply trying to befriend sinners – not because they are trying to earn a notch on their belt of righteousness, but because their master would do the same. On the other hand, if church communities, like the Orchard, are NOT preaching the word, as you have suggested in this post, as well as other posts, then maybe you should take your own medicine doc and pray for us that God would enlighten us to what it is outside of the Great Commission we are not seeing.

    Parenthetically, some of your comments would lead me to believe that reaching outsiders isn’t about a Great Commission, but somehow you have constructed a convoluted belief that it is The Great Omission; therefore, I am sad for you.

    My prayer is that you would look beyond your hurt and capture the true essence of what it means to be a disciple (talmidim) – that somehow you see the magnetism of what the Apostle Paul said, “I determine to know nothing among you, except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.” There lies the beauty of the “why” behind churches like the Orchard reaching outsiders.


    Rev Scottie, I just said "Ugh".

    Rev Scottie

    Sorry Joni,

    I misread by one line I don't think you would want to be confused with John Cozitan. :)

    Josh Karrer

    I wonder how much of this is stemmed from the Christian "industry" and the Press? The cheesy t-shirts, TBN, "Jesus Camp", and just one fanatical can ruin it for 200+ "normal" Christians. One negative carries more social weight and power than 5 positives.

    Regardless, it doesn't seem like we are doing our job in communicating what a Christ follower should look like. ugh

    mark rodriguez

    love the video...

    what a tragedy...

    Dave Anderson

    Awesome video - sucks that someone said "the south" when asked about Christians! AHHHH!!!!!

    Daniel D

    Is it becoming politically correct to like Jesus but dislike Christians? I mean, one thing that has always baffled me is how you can talk with an nonbeliever and in one breath they may say that they think Jesus is admirable and represents love, etc. but if you pressed further with Jesus's claim to be the only way to a relationship with God then they would immediatley become uncomfortable as if you were pushing the "Christian religion" upon them. Is that where it breaks down? If we just talk about love with no obedience or accountability then I guess we're a-okay but the minute you move past that, we become "Christians."

    Daniel D

    Oh yeah... LOVED the video though. You guys rock and big props for doing it. Makes me want to go out and do it here in the streets of my town just to pulse the peeps and see a sampling of people's true thoughts.


    Come on kids,
    Jesus said they hated me before they hated you.
    I'm not surprised by this at all. If you present the gospel as Jesus laid it out you will get that reaction. Non christians are offended by the cross. It was a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the greek.
    Paul didn't change his message. It was Christ on the cross that he preached. Present the gospel message using the word of God for alone it saves.
    Understand that God controls everything and He is not up in heaven wringing His hands because some people have a poor and wrong headed view of christians.
    I really think that these kinds of videos waste a lot of time.
    Pastors, preach the true gospel from our pulpits and those sitting out in the pews go ye into all the world and preach the gospel and those that will be saved, will be saved. Check out John 6:44.
    He has a perfect plan.
    Remember, the way unto salvation is narrow and the way unto destruction is wide.
    Stop wasting time watching videos and learn and understand God's teachings. Scripture really is sufficient....Sola Scriptura!!

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